• [00:00:21] Introducing Finrack
• [00:00:28] What does Finrack do?
• [00:01:38] What sets Finrack apart?
• [00:01:57] Differences between Belgium and France
• [00:03:12] Today's biggest commercial challenges
• [00:03:39] Building long-term customer relationships
• [00:04:06] What makes a great salesperson?
• [00:04:31] Finrack's commercial objectives
• [00:04:43] The future of Finrack
• [00:05:05] Finrack's greatest strength
• [00:05:36] Closing remarks

[00:00:19] Caroline Gasia: Hi David.

[00:00:20] David Van der Looven: Hi Caroline.

Introducing Finrack

[00:00:21] Caroline Gasia: Great to have you as our guest today on our podcast for PHCom. First, tell us a bit about Finrack.

What does Finrack do?

[00:00:28] David Van der Looven: First of all, I am also very happy to be here with you. Finrack is a Belgian fintech based in Brussels that operates across Europe in a very specific niche: asset financing, and more specifically, the financing of stock, of inventory. Inventory actually ties up a company's working capital; there is capital locked in there that cannot be used anywhere else. We have seen that during COVID, just-in-time delivery has been on the decline, and more and more inventory is being built up worldwide, so stock levels are rising globally, which means more capital is tied up. And we started looking for a way to make that tied-up capital partly liquid again. And what does Finrack actually do? We purchase the inventory, and the client can buy back their stock with an exclusive buyback option at the same value at which it was sold. So, as they need their inventory, they can also buy those stocks back. This is done very smoothly in a digital way. So there is... What lies behind it may be complicated, but in practice, it is very simple, and they have additional resources.

What sets Finrack apart?

[00:01:38] Caroline Gasia: What distinguishes you from the competition today?

[00:01:41] David Van der Looven: Well, when we started looking at opportunities to finance stock worldwide, we were very surprised to see that there are actually very few instruments for stock financing. That is why we jumped into that gap. And honestly, there is virtually no competition in that area.

Differences between Belgium and France

[00:01:57] Caroline Gasia: Do you see differences between the French, Belgian, or other markets?

[00:02:00] David Van der Looven: Finrack is actually present in the eurozone. The countries we chose to develop from the start are actually the Benelux and France. France is an important one because there is a more digital mindset among entrepreneurs there, and also, for example, unlike in Belgium where you have a fairly good level of service from the banks. While you have a quasi-monopoly of five banks serving the market, you don't have that in France. And what do we actually see there? That entrepreneurs will consult a bank when looking for financing, but at the same time will also consult a network of independent financial brokers, credit brokers, to find a solution. And it is actually that network of independent intermediaries that we work with and that actually promotes Finrack in France, and that works very well. For a start-up like Finrack, it is of course a very good sales channel, because you are dealing with a variable cost. And if financing is provided, then revenue is generated and you pay a commission to that intermediary. If they do nothing, then you have no cost. Unlike other channels where you often have to invest upfront and you don't know what the return will be and when that return will come.

Today's biggest commercial challenges

[00:03:12] Caroline Gasia: What are the biggest commercial challenges today?

[00:03:15] David Van der Looven: The challenge, of course, when you come up with a new product, regardless of whether it is financial or not, is to market that product and develop sales channels. And we look for any sales channel in doing so, but as a young company, you also have to control your budgets. And yes, we do some testing to develop new sales channels, such as cold calling, for which we started working with PHCom.

Building long-term customer relationships

[00:03:39] Caroline Gasia: How do you ensure that customers remain loyal in the long term?

[00:03:42] David Van der Looven: Yes. Retaining customer relationships, the customers we have—what is very important is simply offering very good service, and also maintaining contact with your customer. We are a digital company, we usually do not see our customers physically, but if you combine that with a video call or a phone call, which establishes your presence with the customer, you still build a very strong relationship.

What makes a great salesperson?

[00:04:06] Caroline Gasia: What competencies do you think a good sales representative absolutely must have today?

[00:04:10] David Van der Looven: Very simple, an adage for a good sales representative is: "don't promise too much and deliver more than you promised", it's actually about expectation management. It is very simple, if a client expects a lot and you don't deliver, they are dissatisfied. If you promise little and deliver more, then you are a god to your client, and that is what we ultimately strive for.

Finrack's commercial objectives

[00:04:31] Caroline Gasia: What are Finrack's commercial objectives today?

[00:04:34] David Van der Looven: Yes, the commercial objective for Finrack is of course to grow, grow, grow, grow and become as big as possible. So yes, finding and acquiring new clients.

The future of Finrack

[00:04:43] Caroline Gasia: How do you see the future of Finrack? What plans are on the agenda?

[00:04:47] David Van der Looven: What is planned for the future of Finrack is that we grow bigger, that we can cover more countries geographically, and that we also further fine-tune the financing product and perhaps create a number of sub-products that fit well into certain niches in the market.

Finrack's greatest strength

[00:05:05] Caroline Gasia: In your opinion, what is Finrack's greatest strength today?

[00:05:08] David Van der Looven: Yes, the unique selling point of the Finrack model is actually the valuation algorithm that we developed to have a correct valuation of the stock in real time, at any given moment. Nobody at this moment is capable of doing that, and that is also what banks are now starting to look at and consult us on, whether they could potentially make use of this algorithm to improve their risk management.

Closing remarks

[00:05:36] Caroline Gasia: Thank you very much, David, and best of luck.

[00:05:39] David Van der Looven: You're very welcome.

• [00:00:00] Introduction
• [00:01:07] Introducing Finrack
• [00:01:20] Why inventory financing has become a strategic business challenge
• [00:03:16] How the Finrack platform works
• [00:03:43] An innovation with virtually no competition
• [00:04:07] The commercial challenges of a fintech
• [00:04:58] Distribution channels and the role of financial intermediaries
• [00:06:03] Finding the right customers
• [00:06:19] Why the French market is more receptive
• [00:06:48] Convincing private investors
• [00:07:27] Essential sales skills
• [00:07:52] Building long-term customer loyalty in a digital environment
• [00:08:34] The mantra "Underpromise & Overdeliver"
• [00:08:47] Why Finrack works with PHCom
• [00:10:09] Confidentiality and trust in business financing
• [00:10:42] Cold calling as a business development strategy
• [00:11:19] Finrack's future ambitions
• [00:11:43] Finrack's inventory valuation algorithm: a unique competitive advantage
• [00:13:08] Conclusion

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmonie & Commercial", produced by PHCom in the transforma bxl studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org"

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmonie & Commercial" podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers, as well as business leaders with commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share with you best practices in searching for new clients for businesses active in business-to-business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website. P.H.C.om, and also on all good podcast platforms.

[00:00:47] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The voicemail is still active so you can leave us a message, we'll answer with great pleasure.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

Introducing Finrack

[00:01:07] Camille de Meeûs: Hello David.

[00:01:08] David Van der Looven: Hello Camille.

[00:01:09] Camille de Meeûs: We are super happy to welcome you today to our PHCom podcast. So, here we are going to talk about business development and your activity. What do you actually do at Finrack?

Why inventory financing has become a strategic business challenge

[00:01:20] David Van der Looven: Finrack is a Belgian Fintech based in Brussels, which has found an innovative solution to finance stock.

[00:01:29] Camille de Meeûs: What do we mean by stock, concretely?

[00:01:31] David Van der Looven: All the material that is stored for a company's production or sale. In fact, the stock was on the road; it was the just-in-time principle. And when Covid hit, we have seen global inventories rise ever since. There was Covid, which obviously disrupted the transport chain, but afterwards plenty of events reinforced this trend. There was the big ship that blocked the canal with its containers, there is the war in Ukraine, and then geopolitically there is a tendency to stockpile things that have become a bit scarcer, so that's why inventories are rising globally. When we looked into whether it was financeable, we saw that there are very few tools to finance a company's inventory. And a company's inventory is ultimately capital—money that is tied up and cannot be used for working capital, to grow the company. So, we started looking for a solution for this, and actually what Finrack does is inventory sale and buyback. So, Finrack buys the company's inventory, and gradually the company can buy back its inventory at the same price. What is fundamental is the valuation, because behind it there are investors who put up their money, and it is with this money that we buy the inventory at a valuation that Finrack will perform. Because we need to protect our investors; if the company runs into trouble and goes into liquidation, well, ultimately the repurchase option, which is exclusive to the seller, will become void, and Finrack will have to sell this inventory to compensate its investors.

How the Finrack platform works

[00:03:16] Camille de Meeûs: And how do all these exchanges, all these partnerships work? Is it through a platform that you have created?

[00:03:21] David Van der Looven: Of course, it's an online platform; everything happens online. Also for inventory tracking, we build connectors with the digital inventory management tool, so we have real-time information on the inventory. How it moves, what is sold, what comes in, so we actually monitor this inventory in real-time.

[00:03:41] Camille de Meeûs: Is there a lot of competition in this field?

An innovation with virtually no competition

[00:03:43] David Van der Looven: When you look at it, there are almost no inventory financing tools; it is something that hasn't really been addressed. So no, there is almost no competition; it is something innovative and new.

[00:03:54] Camille de Meeûs: So we can feel there is a real need then (David Van der Looven: Exactly, exactly), you arrived at the right time?

[00:03:57] David Van der Looven: Exactly, exactly. Because a company that has freed up the funds locked in its inventory can do other things, such as focusing on the company's growth.

The commercial challenges of a fintech

[00:04:07] Camille de Meeûs: Now we are going to talk more about the commercial aspect within Finrack. What are the current challenges?

[00:04:13] David Van der Looven: The biggest challenges for every startup and also Fintech is finding distribution channels; that is the major weakness of a Fintech compared to banks. They have a huge client network, while we come in with a new product that we have to bring to market, but we also need to find distribution channels, sales channels that are profitable. At Finrack, we've been very pragmatic; we launched in several countries, we've been active since September 2024, and we try to work as much as possible with financing intermediaries. As a result, they are paid a commission, and for us it is a variable cost, so that is very advantageous for developing the company. If there are no sales, there are no costs. If there are sales, you pay a commission but you have revenue coming in. And we can see that in Europe, in the countries where we are present—the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France—it has developed very strongly in France. So an entrepreneur in France will consult, yes, their bank, but alongside that, they will consult independent intermediaries specialized in business financing. So, there is strong traction there, and I must also say, I previously ran another Fintech and we had already developed this network, so we are partly falling back on this same network. And that is mainly our area of development today. Another area is neobanks looking for interesting services for their clients, and obviously everything related to digital distribution channels. It's a bit more complicated because there you often have to invest a lot upfront, without knowing what will come out of it and when. So we do a bit of both, but in a moderate way. But our strongest traction is the network of professional financing intermediaries, let's say.

Finding the right customers

[00:06:03] Camille de Meeûs: And so in your field, finding the right clients at the right time takes time, I imagine?

[00:06:08] David Van der Looven: It takes time, yes, it's an investment, indeed.

[00:06:11] Camille de Meeûs: We were just talking about France. How can we explain this difference in commercialization? Why is it, quote-unquote, easier in France than in Belgium? Because it's a larger country? Because...

Why the French market is more receptive

[00:06:19] David Van der Looven: Not necessarily that, it's a bit of a mindset. But there is also a reality: if we take the example of Belgium, we have a near-monopoly of five banks serving the market, and serving it quite well. In France, it's a completely different situation. And that means that the entrepreneur there, first of all, I find them to be more digital, and second of all, since the French banking market is not as well-served as in Belgium, they are looking.

[00:06:45] Camille de Meeûs: So there is more of a need, actually?

[00:06:47] David Van der Looven: There is more of a need, yes.

Convincing private investors

[00:06:48] Camille de Meeûs: What is your greatest commercial success?

[00:06:50] David Van der Looven: Finrack's greatest commercial success is not on the side of the inventory sellers—those are the parties who need money. But I would say it's more on the investor side, private investors, also organized as companies, who are ready to put their money into buying inventory. Since Finrack is young—we started in September 2024—we don't have a long track record there. So really, the greatest commercial success is succeeding in convincing investors to put their money into purchasing inventory.

Essential sales skills

[00:07:27] Camille de Meeûs: What sales skills seem essential to you today?

[00:07:30] David Van der Looven: As a Fintech and a startup, we are quite flexible, we aren't rigid, so on the inventory seller side, we are a young company with an innovative concept, and we adapt to clients as we go. What are the actual needs in the market? You shouldn't create a very rigid product; you need to adapt it gradually to the real needs of the market.

Building long-term customer loyalty in a digital environment

[00:07:52] Camille de Meeûs: Speaking of clients, how do you retain your clients over the long term?

[00:07:57] David Van der Looven: Providing good service. If customers are well served, even if you are more expensive than the others, they stay longer, that's it. And of course, even if we are a digital company, it's about having a certain direct presence. It's not physical, but calling your clients from time to time to see if everything is okay, to maintain the connection, is super important.

[00:08:21] Camille de Meeûs: To have real flexibility, availability.

[00:08:24] David Van der Looven: The biggest compliment is when a client tells you, "Yes, we work digitally, we've never met. But there's human warmth behind this digital company."

The mantra "Underpromise & Overdeliver"

[00:08:34] Camille de Meeûs: David, do you have a quote, or a punchline, or a mantra that you like in sales, something that you repeat often?

[00:08:40] David Van der Looven: The main thing for a successful sale is very simple: underpromise and overdeliver, you have to manage expectations well.

Why Finrack works with PHCom

[00:08:47] Camille de Meeûs: Okay, awesome. Now we're going to talk about the collaboration with PHCom. Finrack has existed since September 2024, when did it start with PHCom and why did you reach out to PHCom?

[00:08:56] David Van der Looven: Finrack started in September 2024, so obviously we are beginning to look at how to develop the sales side. What was most obvious for us was the networks of independent financing intermediaries, credit and financing brokers. But obviously we are also looking to develop digital channels, and we have also looked at other possible channels. One channel was cold-calling, trying to get data on companies, and sorting this data in such a way that we reach potential clients who have a desire to finance their inventory. And that is how I got in touch with PHCom in early 2025. We did a test in Belgium, on a sample of companies, and it was not very conclusive at first. It must also be said that our sales cycle is quite long. But anyway, there were some initial results, so we decided, at the end of 2025, to run a second test that is currently underway, and which is focused more on France, as we know that this target audience in France is much more interested because they are underserved. And so, it's underway.

Confidentiality and trust in business financing

[00:10:09] Camille de Meeûs: Everything related to financial aspects and investments, those are still quite touchy subjects. Is there a specific way to approach these people?

[00:10:16] David Van der Looven: Yes, it's touchy, but those who need financing are ready to do whatever it takes. Of course, we also work with non-disclosure agreements, so that the client's data is well protected. In practice, it's not something that creates a major bottleneck, no; the client wants to get financing, and if we set up the framework properly with the non-disclosure agreement, it goes over quite easily, yeah.

Cold calling as a business development strategy

[00:10:42] Camille de Meeûs: Do you think that working with PHCom has allowed you to save time, in a certain sense?

[00:10:47] David Van der Looven: Certainly because cold-calling is really a very specific line of work. First of all, finding people to do that yourself is no easy task. And obviously, by working with PHC om and doing tests, we don't really invest in it; instead, it is once again a variable cost. So, having a partner who specializes in cold-calling and whom you can call upon on an ad hoc basis... It is much more advantageous for a young company like ours.

Finrack's future ambitions

[00:11:19] Camille de Meeûs: What is your next ambition, your next sales objective? What can we wish you?

[00:11:23] David Van der Looven: That the second test with PHCom shows results that will allow us to keep working this channel, which would obviously be an additional channel. The ultimate goal of Finrack is obviously growth, and also to evolve towards a SaaS model, so that it is simple plug-and-play for our clients.

Finrack's inventory valuation algorithm: a unique competitive advantage

[00:11:43] Camille de Meeûs: What is Finrack's main strength today?

[00:11:45] David Van der Looven: The very unique thing about the Finrack model is the valuation algorithm we developed. So, this algorithm makes it possible to determine the purchase price of the inventory from the inventory seller, from the client seeking financing. But it must also protect investors, ensuring that the inventory they put their money into and its purchase price hold up. And ultimately, what do we need to do with this valuation algorithm? It is to have a price that allows us, if the seller ever goes into liquidation, to know we can sell this inventory in the short term at at least the price we bought it for, to compensate the investors. And this doesn't exist anywhere else in the market. We have no sector restrictions, so we deal with any kind of inventory—it's very diverse—and the expertise we are developing with this algorithm is being able to value any inventory at a suitable price. And we can see that a few banks are already approaching us, and they are interested in this exact algorithm, because today they sometimes grant credit based on the business assets where the inventory is also located, but they have no idea of the value of that inventory. It's a bit like, they take the balance sheet, which is a snapshot of the inventory at a certain point in time, but tomorrow it could be different; they don't have this capability to track the inventory in real time, so there you go.

Conclusion

[00:13:08] Camille de Meeûs: Thank you, David.

[00:13:09] David Van der Looven: Thank you, Camille.

• [00:00:13] Intro jingle and podcast presentation
• [00:01:07] Will AI replace salespeople?
• [00:01:28] How salespeople already use AI
• [00:03:10] The most impressive uses of AI
• [00:03:36] The limits of AI in prospecting
• [00:04:01] The 3 major changes in sales
• [00:04:48] Testimonial from Sophie Dive
• [00:05:47] Prospecting automation
• [00:06:14] An AI voice on the phone that sounds real
• [00:07:04] Why humans are becoming essential again
• [00:07:38] Is AI really replacing salespeople?
• [00:07:59] Testimonial from Hamza Dakir
• [00:08:44] Why AI scripts still sound fake
• [00:09:15] Can AI build good prospect lists?
• [00:09:41] The wildest dreams around AI
• [00:10:49] What AI still does not understand
• [00:11:25] Testimonial from Fabio Artis
• [00:12:08] The danger of AI-generated messages
• [00:12:44] The 5 key human skills
• [00:13:52] How to use AI effectively in sales
• [00:14:14] What if AI becomes better than us?
• [00:14:36] 5 concrete actions to apply
• [00:15:17] How far can automation go without losing humanity?
• [00:15:26] The challenge for listeners
• [00:16:01] Episode conclusion

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast 'Performance, Harmony & Commercial' produced by PHCom in the studio of 'transforma bxl' with the technical assistance of 'The Podcast Factory Org'

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The podcast 'Performance, Harmony & Commercial' is intended for marketing and sales managers, as well as company directors taking on commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share with you good experiences in finding new clients for companies active in business to business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website, P.H.C.O.M, and also on all good podcast platforms.

[00:00:48] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The answering machine is always active so you can leave us a message, we will gladly answer it.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon!

[00:01:07] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to 'Performance, Harmony & Commercial', the podcast that helps you prospect better without becoming a robot.

[00:01:13] Camille de Meeûs: And today, we're actually going to talk to you about robots.

[00:01:16] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes, rather their modern version: artificial intelligence.

[00:01:20] Camille de Meeûs: A fascinating subject, but also a little bit unsettling. Because the real question behind all this is, does the salesperson really still have a future?

[00:01:28] Stéphane Depaepe: Well, big spoiler: yes, but they will have to evolve. Let's start from the beginning. Camille, you prospect; in what cases do you use AI?

[00:01:39] Camille de Meeûs: Mainly when I write emails. I copy-paste my basic email and ask the AI to add information that might be necessary for me when writing the email. And you, Stéphane, in your job as a business development consultant, in what cases do you use artificial intelligence the most?

[00:01:55] Stéphane Depaepe: I have a whole range of them, I must admit. I find it to be a fascinating tool. First of all, to summarize my notes after an interview, a commercial meeting that lasts 1 hour, is summarized in a few lines in a few minutes. Some offers also go through AI, I admit, I run the key elements of the offer through ChatGPT or Gemini. When I prepare client missions as well, I ask it for the questions to ask to qualify a prospect. I've done a wonderful briefing, I have lots and lots of information, how do I synthesize this information? I also benchmark my client's offer, which means that ChatGPT can really quickly fetch all the information on the web about all the competitors, and highlight the differences. Even the emails we prepare, I let the AI propose something to me. Mission reports, because after three months, or six months, or a year of work, we have a wealth of information and ChatGPT can really do a good synthesis, a good analysis of all this information, even create Excel files, graphs, cross-analyses, it's quite fascinating. However, I rework everything. And while sometimes the AI gives me 80% good content, in other cases, we slip closer to 20%, so you have to remain super vigilant.

[00:03:10] Camille de Meeûs: And what is the thing that amazes you the most about AI?

[00:03:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Little "hot call" buttons that we installed in our CRM. In fact, with a single click of a button, it fetches all the available and necessary information to properly prepare for a prospecting call. That means that, in fact, our business developers, instead of spending ten to fifteen minutes before making a call, push a button, have all the information, and can focus on the contact.

[00:03:34] Camille de Meeûs: And where are you the most disappointed with AI, when is that?

[00:03:36] Stéphane Depaepe: Clearly, today, database construction. There are plenty of people who tell me "Yeah, it works well, it gives lists". In all honesty, the lists are nonsense. We usually analyze the filter rate, that is to say, the uninteresting companies that we approach. If I have an AI-generated list of 100 companies, well, rather than having ten or fifteen uninteresting companies, I'll have 30 or 40, and really not well qualified.

[00:04:01] Camille de Meeûs: Ultimately, the profession is still changing, let's face it. In this podcast, we will cover the different changes that AI brings to the sales profession, and we will also give you five habits to adopt to do your job with performance and harmony. Listen to us until the end. Before, the salesperson spent their time looking for information, names, numbers, organizational charts. AI can do it easily and perform everything that is repetitive and give you access to the various information.

[00:04:28] Stéphane Depaepe: Today, in 30 seconds, with AI you can get the right contact, their role, their LinkedIn connection, sometimes even their cell phone. In fact, AI is truly a game changer in the preparation phase. And in fact, for sure, that still represents 80% of the work to pull off a good call.

[00:04:43] Camille de Meeûs: So, first change, we go from information seeker to interpreter.

[00:04:48] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. Everyone has access to the same info. When you ask a business developer like Sophie, listen to what she tells you.

[00:04:54] Sophie Dive: In my prospecting for PHC om, I use artificial intelligence almost spontaneously today, meaning that via Google, I ask via AI, the HR for example, or the Facilities manager for such and such company. And there, right away, I have all the information, I have the name of the person in charge of what I am looking for, their cell phone number, and possibly a link to their LinkedIn profile. So it saves me a crazy amount of time if I can reach the right contact directly without going through any random platforms. It is fast, efficient, and the advantage is that the information I receive is up to date.

[00:05:38] Stéphane Depaepe: So having up-to-date info is super key and super easy. The difference today won't be made on what you know, but on what you do with it.

[00:05:47] Camille de Meeûs: Second major change: automation.

[00:05:50] Stéphane Depaepe: Today, you can automate lots of things, auto-reply emails, automated LinkedIn sequences where it sends an invitation, it sends messages, it allows you to send follow-ups. Automating tools that will generate personalized messages, sent emails. And even AI voices that will be identical to yours, but with artificial intelligence, you don't even need to call anymore.

[00:06:14] Camille de Meeûs: Yes, and that is quite fascinating and worrying, speaking of which I have a little anecdote to tell you. One day I was with my mom, and she gets a call from Proximus. She puts the caller on speakerphone and says 'Oh, this lady seems very nice, she speaks well to me,' etc. But actually, it was entirely an artificial intelligence. I immediately felt that it was an artificial intelligence, but my mom was convinced she was really speaking to a human being. I must say it's quite impressive but equally disturbing.

[00:06:40] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. And the risk with that is you're going to automate everything, so you can do mass volume. And when you start doing mass volume, what happens? There's a knee-jerk reaction that happens in the market. You remember the mass mailings we used to send and then you receive, you receive and then at some point the spam button was invented, and you don't receive mass mailing anymore because there's no interest. At first it works, then at some point it gets tiring, and then it gets annoying.

[00:07:04] Camille de Meeûs: And the third key change is the return of the human. Paradoxical, but still completely logical.

[00:07:09] Stéphane Depaepe: The more automation there is, the more precious the human relationship becomes. And there, I really need to feed myself as a human being, as a person, and we'll look at that later in the podcast.

[00:07:21] Camille de Meeûs: Okay, I'll summarize the three key shifts, and then we'll talk about the division of tasks between humans and artificial intelligence. One, access to the mass of information forces you to know how to interpret it well. Two, automation can save you time. And three, the human relationship remains central in the business relationship.

[00:07:38] Stéphane Depaepe: Collaboration between humans and AI is super positive. So AI is not going to replace the salesperson, let's stay calm, however, what it will do is replace the salesperson's tasks.

[00:07:49] Camille de Meeûs: Tell us more.

[00:07:50] Stéphane Depaepe: AI is excellent for, as I was saying earlier, analyzing, structuring, synthesizing, preparing. Listen to what Hamza, our production director, does with it.

[00:07:59] Hamza Dakir: AI, practically speaking, helps me save time. That's the number one use of AI, saving time, so it allows me to translate a text, summarize meetings, summarize documents, rephrase certain documents. Everything that used to take me half an hour, three quarters of an hour takes me three or four minutes today, that is clearly one of the points where I use AI to the fullest.

[00:08:20] Stéphane Depaepe: What amazed you the most?

[00:08:22] Hamza Dakir: Structuring my ideas, that, that amazed me the most. In fact, we have a lot of scattered ideas, thanks to AI, it allows you to structure them. So it's something that is completely neutral and that actually allows you to see more clearly, because we have so many ideas that are sometimes crazy, well AI will allow you to structure them. That amazed me because that helps enormously, being able to structure your own ideas.

[00:08:44] Stéphane Depaepe: You let AI create a script?

[00:08:46] Hamza Dakir: Personally no, because I find it impersonal, and so my method is to prepare a script on the fly, possibly correct it for standardized formatting, but not for creating the script. Because that's perhaps the area where AI still needs work in the coming years, to see a more human script, there you go. Starting from a base possibly, yes, and adjusting it, yes, maybe that, but making me a script overall, no.

[00:09:15] Stéphane Depaepe: In business development, there's always the files part. Has AI ever helped you develop, find good files, build a good list of companies to prospect?

[00:09:25] Hamza Dakir: It's not an attempt I've made, no honestly. AI will help me more to organize a mission plan, possibly segmentations. And that's where it's very strong actually, but maybe going to search for files, helping me determine what the targets are, no.

[00:09:40] Stéphane Depaepe: In your wildest dreams, what would AI do?

[00:09:44] Hamza Dakir: Prepare client emails, call scripts, replies, succeed in structuring an offer, organizing a complete campaign? And there you go, so that would be the wildest dreams, but we might get there one day, but I think we'll always need the human touch, precisely to guide it.

[00:10:00] Stéphane Depaepe: At that point we won't have any work left, what do we do?

[00:10:02] Hamza Dakir: Well no, we'll always have work. The human element is always essential, right? The human element is a very important part of our job, so ultimately AI is just an additional support that can help us improve our capacity to have ideas, to have scripts, and to have a very specific approach. AI is there to engage with us and be our sparring partner, potentially challenging us. It's really going to help us analyze, to challenge, but there you go, I don't think the profession will disappear, far from it.

[00:10:29] Stéphane Depaepe: Do you use it every day, every week, every month?

[00:10:31] Hamza Dakir: No, every day, every day. AI has become a fully-fledged tool today. There you go, AI today, well, it doesn't decide for me, it can be wrong, clearly, and it will never replace my own internal, on-the-ground judgment and my experience. So that is the big advantage we still have today in our profession.

[00:10:49] Camille de Meeûs: But it still has to be said, it is also weak in several areas. It is weak at feeling, understanding nuances, managing contradictions, and creating a connection.

[00:10:58] Stéphane Depaepe: Simple example: a prospect tells you, "No, it's not the right time." What does AI hear? Well, an objection. The good salesperson, on the other hand, hears a doubt, a fear, a priority that lies elsewhere. And that changes everything for the rest of the discussion. And actually, selling isn't just calculating, it's also feeling and adapting. Fabio is one of our developers, he has some good examples regarding this.

[00:11:25] Fabio Artis: Artificial intelligence will never be able to replace humans. What I mean by that is that the approach we have, the voice we have, the intentions, there is the unwritten, there is the non-verbal. Here, we intervene as people, and the machine is not at all ready yet to be able to replace this intervention. Because there's the emotional aspect, there's the active listening aspect, and there's the contextual aspect, which AI is not yet ready for... And I believe it never will be, it will never be human in a way. So this duality between robotics and humans, to answer you very frankly, AI has its limits, in our profession at least. They say it will replace it, but no. No, it will simply never be able to replace the quality of a call from a real person.

[00:12:08] Camille de Meeûs: You have to know that AI is an amplifier; if you are good, you become very good. If you are average, you become a little faster, but you still remain average.

[00:12:17] Stéphane Depaepe: A real need to constantly improve, isn't there?

[00:12:19] Camille de Meeûs: There is a major danger today, the fact that everyone is using the same tools and everyone is sending the same messages.

[00:12:25] Stéphane Depaepe: And that is noticeable.

[00:12:26] Camille de Meeûs: This perfect tone that sounds empty, that is hollow.

[00:12:28] Stéphane Depaepe: This personalized message, but which we send to 200, or 2000 people.

[00:12:33] Camille de Meeûs: And there, that's clearly the moment where we completely lose the impact. If everyone uses the same AI, the only difference is you. As we were saying, you are the best interpreter, and it's very important to remember that.

[00:12:44] Stéphane Depaepe: That is exactly the heart of the matter. What will make the difference tomorrow is no longer so much the mastery of information, but it will be, and here I summarize the five points for you. A first one is the ability to create a bond.

[00:12:54] Camille de Meeûs: If you allow me, I'll translate it my way. The bond is emotion, trust, presence.

[00:12:59] Stéphane Depaepe: Second point, it's critical thinking.

[00:13:00] Camille de Meeûs: Do not blindly believe what the AI says. Cross-check all your information.

[00:13:04] Stéphane Depaepe: Questioning.

[00:13:05] Camille de Meeûs: We always come back to it, that is to say knowing how to ask the right questions, at the right time. Genuinely taking an interest in what the other person is telling you.

[00:13:12] Stéphane Depaepe: A fourth point is real personalization.

[00:13:14] Camille de Meeûs: And not just of the "Hello Sammy" style, but truly enter the universe of the other.

[00:13:19] Stéphane Depaepe: A final point, clarity.

[00:13:21] Camille de Meeûs: And there, it is clearly understanding the other, and making yourself understood. If you help the client understand their own situation, you will have great opportunities to build something together.

[00:13:32] Stéphane Depaepe: It's still pretty mind-boggling when you look at a summary made by AI, it repeats the same thing three times in three paragraphs, using different words. It's exhausting, it's not clear. So, in summary, less execution for the salesperson but more intelligence. And I'm going to talk about relational intelligence too.

[00:13:52] Camille de Meeûs: And so here, it's not that we're demonizing AI, quite the contrary, it's extremely powerful and we must never forget that it's a real lever.

[00:13:59] Stéphane Depaepe: It indeed saves time, helps you be better prepared, better structured. But AI must be used in the right place. AI should help prepare. Humans should persuade. AI can help you analyze, but it's still up to the human to decide.

[00:14:14] Camille de Meeûs: On the other hand, we can imagine that in five years, AI will also do all of that.

[00:14:17] Stéphane Depaepe: Certainly. What will our society be like when AI has all the emotions and all the wonderful techniques of persuasion? It will indeed be able to persuade, it will indeed be able to decide for you. I suggest we leave that question hanging anyway, because tomorrow's society will be whatever we make of it.

[00:14:36] Camille de Meeûs: Concretely, today, we are giving you five actions to take to fully benefit from AI in your sales job.

[00:14:42] Stéphane Depaepe: So, the first point is to use AI to prepare for every call.

[00:14:45] Camille de Meeûs: But never to replace the interaction.

[00:14:48] Stéphane Depaepe: Work on your style.

[00:14:49] Camille de Meeûs: Your voice, your tone, your way of interacting.

[00:14:51] Stéphane Depaepe: Prioritize quality over volume.

[00:14:52] Camille de Meeûs: Fewer messages, but more qualitative ones.

[00:14:55] Stéphane Depaepe: Test, test continuously.

[00:14:57] Camille de Meeûs: Experiment, adjust, learn.

[00:14:59] Stéphane Depaepe: And keep the real human touch.

[00:15:00] Camille de Meeûs: Keep the meetings, the calls, and the discussions that are real. And a very important question remains (Stéphane Depaepe: Yes): how far will we automate? And at what point do we dehumanize ourselves? Because AI allows you to go faster, but you're still the one who decides how far you're willing to let go with AI.

[00:15:17] Stéphane Depaepe: If we automate everything, what is left?

[00:15:20] Camille de Meeûs: As Mrs. Harmony, I give you three points: the relationship, the exchange, and the understanding of the other.

[00:15:26] Stéphane Depaepe: Thank you. I leave you with, or rather, I give you a challenge for the week. To you listening, please, if you are prospecting, choose a prospect, prepare for them with AI, and really, in depth. Go collect the info, think about them, visualize everything you're going to say to them, and then, experience the exchange yourself, with your voice, your energy, some joy, your pep. Total commitment.

[00:15:53] Camille de Meeûs: I would even add a dose of love, and observe the difference. Take two minutes after your call or meeting and share your experience with us.

[00:16:01] Stéphane Depaepe: Okay with you? Ready to go? Are you playing the game all out?! Thank you then, thank you for listening, thank you for participating, thank you for remembering to be yourself.

[00:16:10] Camille de Meeûs: And above all don't forget, share this episode with someone who thinks AI is going to replace salespeople.

[00:16:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Remember, performance is efficiency.

[00:16:17] Camille de Meeûs: And harmony is meaning.

[00:16:20] Camille et Stéphane ensemble.: See you very soon.

• [00:00:13] Intro jingle, podcast presentation
• [00:01:07] Inbound vs outbound meeting
• [00:01:28] Difference between inbound and sales prospecting
• [00:01:50] Should these meetings be handled differently?
• [00:02:00] Key differences and trust
• [00:03:34] Understanding inbound requests
• [00:04:21] Common mistake about trust
• [00:05:24] Trust level depending on the channel
• [00:06:45] The 4 levers to build trust
• [00:08:18] Adapting your posture to the prospect’s profile
• [00:08:57] The importance of the first seconds
• [00:09:19] The role of time in the relationship
• [00:09:31] Confusion between interest and trust
• [00:10:25] Finding the right sales pace
• [00:11:11] Creating attention in prospecting
• [00:11:24] Establishing priority with the prospect
• [00:11:41] Differences in sales mindset
• [00:12:04] Defensive selling in inbound
• [00:12:29] Opposite excess in prospecting
• [00:13:03] Sensitive topics often avoided
• [00:13:54] Addressing budget, decision and commitment
• [00:14:35] Structuring the sale without skipping steps
• [00:14:46] Sales as a staircase, not a straight line
• [00:16:16] Summary
• [00:17:07] Episode closing

Intro jingle, podcast presentation

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org"

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast is designed for marketing and sales managers, as well as company executives taking on commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share best practices in finding new clients for companies active in business-to-business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website: P.H.C.O.M, and also on all major podcast platforms.

[00:00:48] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, or a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The answering machine is always active so you can leave us a message; we will answer it with great pleasure.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by visiting phcom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

Inbound vs outbound meeting

[00:01:07] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello Madam Harmony.

[00:01:08] Camille de Meeûs: Hello Mister Performance.

[00:01:10] Stéphane Depaepe: Today's topic: Handling an inbound B2B appointment versus a hunted appointment, what differences should be taken into account? We have talked a lot about hunting in the context of prospecting, and it is clearly our profession!

Difference between inbound and sales prospecting

[00:01:28] Camille de Meeûs: Now, it's important to discuss the proactive approach of reaching out to target companies and contacts as well. There is also what we call inbound, which is making these people or companies come to you.

[00:01:41] Stéphane Depaepe: As a result, we end up with two types of appointments to handle: an appointment made from an inbound request and appointments that were hunted down.

Should these meetings be handled differently?

[00:01:50] Camille de Meeûs: That is exactly today's topic. How to handle each of these appointments? Knowing that they are made in different contexts and that therefore, in principle, their treatment must also be different.

Key differences and trust

[00:02:00] Stéphane Depaepe: We are going to talk about these differences, but differences in needs, specific requests, techniques, treatments, timing to manage the relationship, but also mindset, closing systems. And above all, we are going to talk about trust.

[00:02:15] Camille de Meeûs: Perhaps we will start with these appointments made from incoming requests, what is called inbound marketing.

[00:02:20] Stéphane Depaepe: So we are not going to describe all the means to attract these people, it is clear that communication is key. There are many advertising solutions, mailing, social networks, distribution networks too, or even resellers. A well-referenced website, recommendations made by AIs: ChatGPT, Perplexity, Gemini.

[00:02:42] Camille de Meeûs: It works, and it's quite comfortable to receive requests, and to be able to process them. We could talk about all these means in a future podcast perhaps?

[00:02:48] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. So, let's stay on today's topic, what difference in treatment to apply to these inbound appointments, or to those you have been hunting for? Let's start with inbound appointments. Sometimes you have to call them to get the appointment, sometimes there are appointments that come directly into your calendar, as you said, it's super comfortable. Some problems arise nevertheless. What I hear mainly from salespeople is the incoming flow of requests is not sufficient, I don't have enough. The incoming flow is too important, we can no longer keep up. Or again, the incoming requests are not of quality, in fact the people who call me back to set an appointment, it's nice but they are not interesting at all. Or the appointment that was made, it's not interesting at all.

Understanding inbound requests

[00:03:34] Camille de Meeûs: Ok, I hear your point, and let's talk about these famous appointments precisely, which I understand are not always well qualified. If we want to handle these appointments in good conditions, we must start from the mindset of someone who calls you. I suggest two scenarios. One, you are called by recommendation. Two, through communication, people come to you like: thanks to your well-referenced website, thanks to ChatGPT, Perplexity, or another artificial intelligence that recommends your company. Or maybe you were a speaker at an event, where you were seen at a trade show, or your mailing is bearing fruit. In both cases, a first positive filter has already taken place, someone or something said for you "Hey, it's worth a look!"

[00:04:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. These two scenarios already make it possible to define at what level of trust the relationship starts.

Common mistake about trust

[00:04:21] Camille de Meeûs: And that is where many salespeople are mistaken. They think that trust is already 100% there, 100% established, when in reality it is a variable, a capital, something that is built, consumed, and sometimes has to be regained.

[00:04:34] Stéphane Depaepe: Indeed, and therefore this capital is not always the same. So in B2B, the sale never starts at zero, but neither does any start at 100%. That is why we often talk about a higher trust threshold for appointments by recommendation, not because the prospect trusts you blindly, but because they give you upfront credit. And in fact we could place this threshold around 30 out of 100, sometimes more, if the recommendation is very strong or if your positioning is very, very clear, you can gain a few more points. That is to say, the prospect has clearly identified your products, your services and if they call you it is because it could meet their demand. But beware, this credit is fragile, it can melt away very quickly if the salesperson adopts the wrong posture.

Trust level depending on the channel

[00:05:24] Camille de Meeûs: And if the appointment comes via social networks, or a mailing, a website, is there the same level of trust?

[00:05:29] Stéphane Depaepe: So there, I would immediately drop the trust threshold down to 10, 20? Insofar as he has already made a decision, and that's good, but he doesn't really know you.

[00:05:42] Camille de Meeûs: Okay, let's finalize the picture. What do you estimate the initial trust threshold to be in a cold appointment?

[00:05:49] Stéphane Depaepe: Below ten. In any case very low, sometimes close to zero, sometimes even negative, if an appointment is forced. In fact, the prospect doesn't know you, and wasn't expecting you; they agree to talk to you not out of trust, but because they have a little bit of openness or curiosity. Be careful, this can also happen if you haven't been clear in your communication, if you cast too wide a net with ads that are just too catchy. There, in that context, you can have appointments where the trust threshold is well below ten. So, in a cold appointment, your role is not to capitalize on existing trust, but to make up for a deficit.

[00:06:29] Camille de Meeûs: And it's clear that this is a crucial nuance. In one case, we manage capital; in the other, we invest to create it. That clearly changes everything. The way of speaking, questioning, proposing. In fact, you are building a relationship and you must instill the necessary dose of trust.

The 4 levers to build trust

[00:06:45] Stéphane Depaepe: I suggest four elements to build trust. And actually, it's not so much me suggesting these four elements, it's really the synthesis of the feedback from companies I've had the opportunity to support over time, when I asked them the question 'How do you build trust?'. So the first point is openness to others, being outward-looking, listening to them, understanding them, and making sure they feel it. A second point is authentic intent, meaning being genuine in all circumstances, honest, transparent, and having a real intention to help them succeed. It's not about imposing, but building and proposing.

[00:07:24] Camille de Meeûs: That really is the position of a life coach, the one who is ready to listen to help, and it's a contract made beforehand between both parties. The coachee and the coach, we're going to move forward together, hand in hand.

[00:07:36] Stéphane Depaepe: Third point, proven professionalism, meaning the provision of real added value based on skills and expertise.

[00:07:44] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, it's simply about being credible by demonstrating our mastery in different ways. Using the right words, accurate words, knowing how to explain case studies, using undeniable truths, such as statistics, shared assertions, etc. etc.

[00:07:59] Stéphane Depaepe: And finally, a fourth point: an appropriate attitude, meaning the way you act, smile, look at them, your behavior, your self-image, your company's image, respecting commitments, arriving on time, honoring an appointment, submitting an offer at the right time, saying what you are going to do... And doing what you say.

Adapting your posture to the prospect’s profile

[00:08:18] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, that is clearly knowing how to play the mirror effect, and there are plenty of little techniques for that. Adapting your offer according to purchasing motivations. Do you remember SONCAS? Adapting to their way of functioning according to an R.A.M.I. type model. As a reminder, people who are more inclined to favor relationships or more oriented towards action or working methods, or even always ready to build new ideas. In fact, it's the chameleon salesperson.

[00:08:44] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. It is really about being congruent, too, in form and content. Your whole person must be in tune with what you are saying; to be convincing, you must be convinced.

The importance of the first seconds

[00:08:57] Camille de Meeûs: Clearly, clearly in a prospection meeting, you must keep these four points in mind, and also, be very careful to, on the one hand, perfect the first 20 seconds of the initial contact: eye contact, smile, posture, first words, and above all always remain consistent throughout your first meeting and in the repetitiveness of contacts as the relationship is built.

The role of time in the relationship

[00:09:19] Stéphane Depaepe: So parallel to this question of trust, we must talk about time, because this relationship is built over time and it is a matter of managing the level of trust over that time.

Confusion between interest and trust

[00:09:31] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, in an inbound meeting, the prospect is already in motion. They made a move, they clicked, they called, they filled out a form or accepted a recommendation. In other words, they have activated something in their mind, and it is rarely completely clear, but they are already mentally engaged. They compare, explore, evaluate, and often they feel like they have the upper hand, they have the feeling of controlling the pace. And that is where the salesperson needs to be very sharp in this famous time management.

[00:09:56] Stéphane Depaepe: In fact, the salesperson often confuses motion with trust. Just because someone comes to you doesn't mean they trust you, it just means they think you are worth evaluating. As we were saying, the trust threshold is higher than in pure prospecting. Maybe 20 or 30, but certainly no more than that. If you accelerate too fast, you will burn through the trust capital. If, on the other hand, you don't move fast enough, you risk losing their attention and interest.

Finding the right sales pace

[00:10:25] Camille de Meeûs: Everything is actually a matter of balance. Often, some salespeople accelerate too fast, they propose, they quote, they promise, they clearly skip steps. For various reasons, because they are afraid, afraid of losing the lead, afraid to tackle less mastered topics, or because they think the sale is already closed, or because they feel superior to the requester.

[00:10:43] Stéphane Depaepe: In an outbound meeting it is different, time is not structured the same way. In fact, the prospect does not visualize how long it will take them, how far they will go, how far they will be taken. The prospect wasn't expecting you, you are an interruption, a solicitation, and so your first mission is not to sell, but to create a timeframe and a frame of attention. Your mission is to help the prospect tell themselves 'This subject deserves some energy'.

Creating attention in prospecting

[00:11:11] Camille de Meeûs: In other words, you have to help your contact tell themselves that this subject deserves their time. In fact, you don't create an urgency, you establish a priority. This heavily involves tackling certain topics in the first meeting, and managing the agenda well.

Establishing priority with the prospect

[00:11:24] Stéphane Depaepe: And so that is the essential question for every salesperson. Do you adapt your pace depending on the origin of the meeting? Outbound or inbound? Or do you always apply the same cadence at the risk of losing either attention or credibility?

Differences in sales mindset

[00:11:41] Camille de Meeûs: So we also talk a lot about the prospect's mindset, but very rarely about the seller's. And yet it changes profoundly depending on the type of meeting. In an inbound meeting, the seller tends to switch into reactive mode, wanting to answer quickly, do well, be pleasant, and sometimes becomes too accommodating. They listen, yes, but they no longer dare to direct; they respond to the request, even when it is poorly formulated.

Defensive selling in inbound

[00:12:04] Stéphane Depaepe: That's what we call defensive selling. In fact, we put ourselves in a subordinate position without realizing it. Conversely, in an outbound meeting, the seller is often more structured, or at least they should be. They have prepared their pitch, they know where they want to go, but they can fall into the opposite extreme. Too much caution, too much restraint, too much patience, they wait for the prospect to open all the doors... when it is precisely their role to open them.

Opposite excess in prospecting

[00:12:29] Camille de Meeûs: True mastery is remaining consistent in one's posture, being both attentive and directive, benevolent but always guiding. Whether the meeting is inbound or outbound, you are there to guide, not to undergo.

[00:12:41] Stéphane Depaepe: The worst I've ever heard is actually starting a prospecting meeting by asking the question, "What do you expect from me? Why are we meeting today?". In fact, you can be almost sure you'll get shot down. Remember the good technique: whoever asks the questions leads, you know where you want to go, so take the right paths to get there. Don't try to teleport directly to the destination.

Sensitive topics often avoided

[00:13:03] Camille de Meeûs: So let's recap. We've talked about trust, we've talked about timing, we've talked about the seller's posture. And I now propose a fourth point which is fundamental: the topics we avoid.

[00:13:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Indeed, in an inbound meeting, many salespeople don't dare to challenge the request. They take the brief as is, they execute. As I was saying, a submissive posture. However, an inbound request isn't always a mature request; it's sometimes vague, misguided, or dictated by bad past experiences.

[00:13:33] Camille de Meeûs: And conversely, in an outbound meeting, it's often the budget, the decision, and the commitment that cause minor problems. We postpone topics, we tell ourselves it's not the right time yet, but by constantly avoiding them, we build a real sales journey that becomes wobbly. The key is not to say everything too quickly; it's to say the right things at the right time, depending on the level of trust.

Addressing budget, decision and commitment

[00:13:54] Stéphane Depaepe: At the same time, what I advise is to approach your outbound prospect directly with a very high business level posture. We don't have time to lose, we get straight to the point. If you've made a good introduction, if you've captured enough attention, if you've created an atmosphere conducive to discussion, you can afford to quickly identify who is around the table, and what the decision-making or influencing powers are. Validate the timing: is it right to discuss this or that topic? And even why not, if budgets might exist in this perspective, that's part of those famous life insurance questions, meaning: if you don't address them quickly, there's a high risk of losing your sale on one of them.

Structuring the sale without skipping steps

[00:14:35] Camille de Meeûs: A question often comes up: is sales a linear journey or a mechanism that can go from point A to C without passing through point B? The important thing is not to skip steps.

Sales as a staircase, not a straight line

[00:14:46] Stéphane Depaepe: I see reality more as a staircase that we climb. The goal is to reach the top, meaning the space where you enter the negotiation phase under good conditions. But at the same time, you have to check all the boxes which are not always aligned with each step of the staircase. In fact, at the top of the stairs, there are still exit doors for your prospect, loopholes that will make you lose the sale, but at least you have made it there. You have made it there because you have earned all the trust points. You haven't gone too fast, nor too slow, you've covered all the topics you feel your counterpart needs to understand, and you've gathered all the information you need to ensure you know exactly what should be sold and how it will be sold. Actually, these checkboxes for an inbound meeting or an outbound meeting are not the same.

[00:15:36] Camille de Meeûs: If you sell IT services or if you provide cleaning staff, or if you support companies in their financial organization, do you really need to have your checklist to reach the top of the stairs?

[00:15:45] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. You must define which information must have been perfectly understood and accepted. What objective information do you need to have before moving on to the next step? But also, what is the mindset of your counterpart at each step? What are the trust points earned? This work is preliminary, and must be done as much for handling inbound meetings as for outbound or prospected meetings.

Summary

[00:16:16] Camille de Meeûs: Ok great, thanks for this technical tool. Ultimately, regardless of the origin of the meeting, inbound or outbound, the fundamentals always remain non-negotiable. Good preparation by clearly differentiating the two scenarios, managing trust with the four points we've already discussed, openness to the other, authentic intention, professionalism, attitude, time management, timing, and content in building the relationship. A beautiful mechanism, in fact. Or a beautiful journey, or both together?

[00:16:45] Stéphane Depaepe: These are different starting points towards the same destination, so it's a journey. Because a map or a GPS is welcome, but also a mechanism since everything is linked and intertwined. And like any beautiful mechanism, it needs to be oiled, and the salespeople need to be fueled with content training, technical training, or even attitude training.

Episode closing

[00:17:07] Camille de Meeûs: Well positioned to sell the PHCom service, the goal here is always the agreement between both parties, we go further together. Thank you Mr. Performance.

[00:17:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Thank you Mrs. Harmony

[00:17:17] Stéphane et Camille ensemble: See you very soon for the next episode of PHCom