• [00:01:07] Introduction
• [00:01:34] Prospecting profiles
• [00:02:32] Why the brain hates prospecting
• [00:03:03] Facing rejection
• [00:03:19] What to do
• [00:03:35] Scripts and misconceptions
• [00:04:17] Understanding what to do when you hear “no”
• [00:04:59] The hunting metaphor
• [00:05:37] Identifying the right company
• [00:05:58] The right argument at the right time
• [00:06:09] The prospector and their tools
• [00:06:56] Game, rhythm and challenge
• [00:07:14] Mental posture
• [00:07:40] Extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation
• [00:07:58] Tough days
• [00:08:13] The power of micro-goals
• [00:08:57] Motivation as a result
• [00:09:26] The prospector’s posture
• [00:09:56] The memory of success
• [00:10:20] Mindset
• [00:10:30] Mental control of the conversation
• [00:10:45] The body before the mind
• [00:11:08] Learning and applying techniques
• [00:11:41] Testimonial: active listening as the key to prospecting
• [00:12:06] Testimonial: enjoying discovering new companies and contacts
• [00:12:33] Testimonial: the pleasure of human contact in prospecting
• [00:13:01] Testimonial: accepting “no” and understanding statistical logic
• [00:14:10] Testimonial: loving the job and human exchanges
• [00:14:25] Curiosity and understanding others
• [00:15:02] Using notes and summaries
• [00:15:16] Turning listening into commercial progress

[00:00:13] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello and welcome to this new episode of the podcast "Performance, Harmony & Commercial", produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio in Brussels with the technical assistance of "The Podcast Factory Org".

[00:00:23] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast is intended for marketing and sales managers as well as company directors taking on commercial roles.

[00:00:32] Stéphane Depaepe: Every month, we share good experiences with you regarding the search for new clients for businesses active in business-to-business.

[00:00:38] Nadia Ben Jelloun: You can find each episode on the PHCom dot be website, P.H.C.O.M., and also on all good podcast platforms.

[00:00:48] Stéphane Depaepe: You can support this podcast and boost its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, a comment, a share.

[00:00:55] Nadia Ben Jelloun: The answering machine is always active so you can leave us a message; we will gladly answer it.

[00:01:00] Stéphane Depaepe: You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane by going to PHCom dot be.

[00:01:06] Nadia Ben Jelloun: See you soon.

[00:01:07] Stéphane Depaepe: Hello Mrs. Harmony,

[00:01:08] Camille de Meeûs: Hello Mr. Performance.

[00:01:10] Stéphane Depaepe: Mrs. Harmony, are you cut out for prospecting?

[00:01:12] Camille de Meeûs: And you, Mr. Performance, are you cut out for prospecting?

[00:01:15] Stéphane Depaepe: Well, let's be honest, prospecting is something you either love or hate.

[00:01:19] Camille de Meeûs: Or maybe you think you hate it because you don't understand what goes on in the mind when you prospect.

[00:01:25] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. So today, we are not going to say "You just need to get moving".

[00:01:28] Camille de Meeûs: No, we are going to ask a real question: are you cut out for prospecting? And above all, why?

[00:01:34] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes, because if you force yourself every day, well, that's not professionalism, that's burnout. Tell me, Mrs. Harmony, why did you finally get into prospecting yourself?

[00:01:46] Camille de Meeûs: I think the greatest quality for a prospector is listening and trying to understand the needs of the client, of the person you are calling. And you, Mr. Performance, why?

[00:01:57] Stéphane Depaepe: Well, I'm going to tell you right away that it's not because I like doing this or I like doing that, but it's mainly because I am me, it's just me. And me, Mr. Performance, well know that I am curious. I like to find out, I like to understand, so I like to listen. And ultimately, it becomes obvious to be able to meet, to set an appointment and to open the door. And so as a result, I am very happy at the end of the day when I have actually opened my doors. So I admit there are plenty of other good reasons why I've been doing this for 30 years, but right now that's mostly what I'm thinking about.

[00:02:32] Camille de Meeûs: Prospecting, we can still say it, remains a quite particular activity. It combines three things that the brain hates: rejection, uncertainty, and effort without immediate rewards.

[00:02:44] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly, essentially prospecting goes against nature. In fact, your brain loves the familiar, it loves quick validation, a little hit of dopamine, it loves security. And here, in fact, you call someone who hasn't asked for anything, you don't know what context you're walking into, you don't know what's going to happen.

[00:03:01] Camille de Meeûs: And above all, who might maybe tell you no in three seconds.

[00:03:03] Stéphane Depaepe: So first question for the listener who is wondering if they are cut out for this job: when someone tells you no, do you take that as information or as a personal attack?

[00:03:15] Camille de Meeûs: Being made for prospecting isn't about liking rejection, it's knowing how not to carry it.

[00:03:19] Stéphane Depaepe: Really? And how do you do that?

[00:03:21] Camille de Meeûs: As the Toltecs say, don't take anything personally. If not now, it will be later. If not him, it will be someone else. There is always a positive outcome; behind the one who tells you no, there is always someone who will tell you yes. It's like sunshine after the rain.

[00:03:35] Stéphane Depaepe: Another misconception is that good prospectors love scripts.

[00:03:39] Camille de Meeûs: Oh really? I don't really believe that, it must box them in, right?

[00:03:43] Stéphane Depaepe: Actually, you're right; indeed, I think they love mastering the subject and especially not reciting a text like a robot. The script is actually not a prison, it's... Okay, perfect at the beginning, it gives you a map that tells you where you are going, but it won't tell you how to walk. What you really need is to master the subject. If anything, it's like in the theater, it's true, you can have a text and you can't deviate from it, but the way you act it out will give it so much color that the audience will appreciate it. And when you prospect, well, your audience is your prospect.

[00:04:17] Camille de Meeûs: In summary, for the candidate prospector, do you prefer reciting sentences or rather understanding what you do and why you do it? And then we'll add another layer: do you know what to do when someone tells you no?

[00:04:29] Stéphane Depaepe: So here, we might move from theater to improv, knowing that to handle 'no's well, you need to have acquired certain reflexes. In fact, these reflexes are somewhat of a structure. Both improvisers and prospectors have reflexes, automatisms, because without them, it's true, it creates anxiety. So the good news is that it can be learned, it can be practiced. So better than a script, take a framework, but ultimately, you can also use ready-made phrases, ready to draw.

[00:04:59] Camille de Meeûs: Ah, and is that the meaning of hunting for prospects?

[00:05:02] Stéphane Depaepe: Not only. Do you know the difference between a good and a bad hunter?

[00:05:06] Camille de Meeûs: Absolutely not, I don't know it.

[00:05:08] Stéphane Depaepe: So the difference is fundamental. The good hunter sees something moving and shoots, the bad hunter sees something moving and shoots, but it's not the same thing. More seriously, the good hunter shoots the right beast, seeking above all to track the game with patience and passion. That means a hunter will identify a presence, a track, sounds, movements, and know if there's something interesting or not.

[00:05:37] Camille de Meeûs: In prospecting, we're therefore talking about finding the right company, classifying it as A in the system: A, B, C, or D, and therefore finding the right person.

[00:05:44] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. The hunter wants to understand the terrain where they roam, at what time, under what conditions; they observe before acting.

[00:05:52] Camille de Meeûs: And when they act, I imagine they will position themselves correctly, not too early, not too late, and above all, not at random.

[00:05:58] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes, the right argument well placed, at the right time. And if they don't propose a meeting, well at least they know if it's worth pursuing or not.

[00:06:07] Camille de Meeûs: And do they hunt alone?

[00:06:09] Stéphane Depaepe: Hunters are not alone, but it's still them who decide. Prospectors are also alone, but they are also surrounded: by marketing, by communication, by a good brand, by people who have put together good files, by an IT team that has developed a good CRM because there's a good manager driving them, and... But in the end, it's up to them to act.

[00:06:33] Camille de Meeûs: It's true that it's super important to have solid foundations, support, and above all a good understanding of what you're looking for. On the other hand, they must still often feel alone because they make many contacts, with little immediate feedback. They like talking to others, yes, but they have to accept working alone. In fact, if you need constant approval, prospecting is clearly going to exhaust you. The key is to be autonomous.

[00:06:56] Stéphane Depaepe: Alternative: if you like the game, the rhythm, the challenge, well, those are ways of operating that will move you forward. You don't control every yes, but that can be an obstacle. But you actually control many other situations: like the number of calls, the quality of your preparation.

[00:07:14] Camille de Meeûs: And especially your posture. Meaning the smile, being in good shape, your work environment, and your dynamic. Your mental dynamic, that's the real trigger, it's being happy with your work before having sold. Not "Did I sell?" but "Did I work well?" It takes the pressure off and the motivation comes back.

[00:07:32] Stéphane Depaepe: And as I was saying earlier, there is no point in forcing yourself every day, it is counterproductive; willpower is good but it is a limited resource.

[00:07:40] Camille de Meeûs: Whereas remembering what you like, your drivers, that will really help you. Example. Example, extrinsic motivation is everything related to goals, bonuses, pressure. Or intrinsic motivation, which is more about meaning, mastery, autonomy, that is bottomless.

[00:07:58] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes. Well, now there can be off days, days where nothing goes right, we will tend to mess everything up and then we will quickly tend especially to not want to do anything anymore. And that doesn't work at all, on the contrary, you collapse if you do nothing.

[00:08:13] Camille de Meeûs: But yes, clearly. And in fact, sales energy fluctuates, you can sometimes be tempted to do less. If you are in a slump, I'll give you a little trick to get going, to get yourself restarted. Set yourself micro-goals, you will have quick wins, it will be your immediate feedback.

[00:08:27] Stéphane Depaepe: It is the very principle of having an intelligent discipline, tools, as we just explained, and not a heroic motivation of the type "I set myself completely unrealistic goals", "I force myself" and finally I get tired. So, your profile, if you want to prospect well, is: you know yourself, you know how you operate, you know what you like, and you remember it in case of the blues, while applying the right techniques.

[00:08:57] Camille de Meeûs: Here you touch upon perhaps the most important element, what motivates you. Let's say it right away, motivation is a result, not a starting point. You don't get motivated to prospect.

[00:09:07] Stéphane Depaepe: So, do you mean 'We prospect to get motivated?'. In fact, yes, yes, absolutely, every call is an opportunity to find a motivator. For you, as a person, to go from one call to another. Madame Harmonie, there you amazed me. So if we prospect intelligently, we become motivated again, I love it!

[00:09:26] Camille de Meeûs: And yes, I repeat, motivation is not decided, it is created by the internal state and the posture at the moment of picking up, you know that you will find something you like, that drives you. It can simply be hearing a hello to your hello. Prospecting is really a game, and it will facilitate taking risks, and it will allow you to dare a little bit more each time, and it will be a positive feeling for your interlocutor. You can be motivated, but tired, confident but stressed, what matters is the internal state perceived by your interlocutor.

[00:09:56] Stéphane Depaepe: Yes and I think we are progressing well. So you know the techniques to put yourself in good condition. I take this opportunity to give you four keys that you can keep in mind for every call. The first key is the memory of success, remember a call that went well.

[00:10:13] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, 30 seconds is enough to put you in that state. The brain does not tell the difference between experienced and re-experienced.

[00:10:20] Stéphane Depaepe: Second key. The offerer mindset, in fact you are not bothering, you are offering a possibility.

[00:10:27] Camille de Meeûs: Like 'We offer you the possibility to...'.

[00:10:30] Stéphane Depaepe: Exactly. Third key, regain mental control, you are the one calling, you know where you want to go.

[00:10:37] Camille de Meeûs: Remember anyway. Guiding is not dominating, it's securing the exchange. And for that you have the techniques to guide an interview from A to Z.

[00:10:45] Stéphane Depaepe: Finally, one last key takeaway perhaps from you, Madam Harmony?

[00:10:48] Camille de Meeûs: I would say the body before the mind. Breathing before the call, an audible smile, a slow, steady, firm voice. You always know where you're going.

[00:10:57] Stéphane Depaepe: At the same time. Move, stand up, and walk. In fact, the body leads the mind, so take breaks, and preferably not on your smartphone, but go move around in the fresh air.

[00:11:08] Camille de Meeûs: All these are reminders, these are techniques, but actually, what will characterize a good prospector is either you already master them, or you are ready to learn them, and above all, you put them into practice. In summary, the right question is: do you already know all this, or are you ready to receive it?

[00:11:23] Stéphane Depaepe: When we asked our team what each person considered to be their characteristic that made them "Be a good prospector", well, what stood out was curiosity. I'll let you hear a few comments from these people and it's obvious.

[00:11:41] Camille de Meeûs: Fabio, why do you feel you belong in prospecting?

[00:11:44] Fabio: I don't think I'm specially made for it, but I have a listening skill that allows me to adapt to my prospect's frequency. And the fact of listening, of having active listening, also allows me to adapt my pitch. It's a matter of sensitivity to your prospect, that's what really allows me to have good contact with the person I'm on the line with, it's fluid communication.

[00:12:06] Camille de Meeûs: Christelle, why do you feel you belong in prospecting?

[00:12:10] Christelle: I've always loved doing this job. I love chatting with people, I love discovering new horizons, new companies, etc. And I find it very interesting to be able to interact with different departments, whether it's human resources, or people who are more on the creative side in print, for example, so there, it's something that attracts me, where I feel good.

[00:12:33] Sandrine: It's something I did for a very long time, and a very long time ago too, where I was contacting scientists back then. So I also really like this aspect of making contact, and sometimes even in somewhat complicated environments. I also like this contact with people. So I need that, whether I see them or not, whether it's in a meeting or remotely. It's really something that motivates me. And above all, I know that behind it, a beautiful story is going to be written.

[00:13:01] Stéphane Depaepe: Geoffroy, the question is quite simple: why do you think you are made for prospecting?

[00:13:05] Geoffroy: Excellent question. I think that first, I'm not afraid to take initiative, especially to make mistakes. And so in this sense, prospecting, well I know I'm going to get noes, but I know I'm also going to get yeses. I think I've also made a habit of accepting noes, and that, one of the ways in a sense, that helps me take noes because by definition there will be noes, is telling myself that it brings me closer to the yeses. There is simply a statistical effect in the selection which means that, once you know your success ratio a little bit, ultimately if three tenths of my calls are successful, I know that if I get a no, I'm just getting closer to the three calls that will say yes to me. This statistical aspect allows me to fully absorb the noes without any problem. Perhaps the last thing to say is that I seek above all to understand and not to convince, and I think that can be felt in the calls. I don't put pressure on others, I just want clarity, I just want to position things and see if somewhere, in all honesty on their part, we go further into the information, or not. No pressure to sell since the goal is to understand.

[00:14:10] Stéphane Depaepe: Why do you think you are a good prospector.

[00:14:12] Hamza: Because I love what I do, quite simply. And because I like discussing, I like talking, I like exchanging, learning, that's it. And from the moment you love what you do, well I think you're a good prospector.

[00:14:25] Camille de Meeûs: Well yes, logically, when you're curious, fear decreases. You are no longer focused on yourself. Who is he? What is he experiencing? What is important to him? It becomes a compass, and as soon as you have understood the other person, it becomes obvious, curiosity replaces stress.

[00:14:40] Stéphane Depaepe: And developing trust, that's also something you build, it doesn't fall from the sky. Let's give a little additional technique for the curious, who by definition will make good prospectors, use the memory of success. Remember a sale, remember a good call, remember a smooth conversation.

[00:14:57] Camille de Meeûs: And as a result, exploit what you note down too, it allows you to prepare for a call.

[00:15:02] Stéphane Depaepe: Obviously the ideal is to know how to directly synthesize what your contact gave you, during the discussion, because then you will be able to immediately mirror, that is to say send back to your prospect what awaits him and he will automatically agree to move forward with you.

[00:15:16] Camille de Meeûs: Result you have reached your goal, you are happier and your next call starts in good conditions. So in fact, you will be a good prospector, a good market developer, if you know how to use what the other person tells you to move forward.

[00:15:29] Stéphane Depaepe: Let's summarize.

[00:15:29] Camille de Meeûs: Let's go!

[00:15:30] Stéphane Depaepe: You are made for prospecting if you accept uncertainty.

[00:15:34] Camille de Meeûs: Which does not prevent getting into the right state of mind before calling, you must always prepare yourself.

[00:15:38] Stéphane Depaepe: If you know yourself well enough, that you know how to understand yourself.

[00:15:42] Camille de Meeûs: Because knowing yourself is a prerequisite, it will allow you to regulate your work, feeling good in your body and good in your head.

[00:15:49] Stéphane Depaepe: If you are curious, that you like to understand, you will be a good hunter.

[00:15:53] Camille de Meeûs: Much better than the one who recites a pitch or waiting for the prospect to come. If you go looking for the information yourself, and you have understood the other person, you will quickly find what will suit both.

[00:16:03] Stéphane Depaepe: If you know how to take a hit without closing yourself off.

[00:16:06] Camille de Meeûs: In fact, you just like to bounce back and play off the other person.

[00:16:09] Stéphane Depaepe: If you know how to transform an initially cold approach, which shows your tension, into a warm approach, proving you're comfortable and know how to master the situation.

[00:16:21] Camille de Meeûs: That simply means you are confident and always open to learning new techniques.

[00:16:26] Stéphane & Camille (ensemble): Then see you very soon at PHCom...

[00:16:28] Stéphane Depaepe: And happy prospecting!