• [00:01:07] Introduction: the right pitch
• [00:01:29] Sophie Dive, market developer
• [00:02:12] Sophie Dive’s advice
• [00:02:29] A recent example
• [00:03:15] The CSAQ
• [00:03:54] Bruno Cox, market developer
• [00:04:15] An argument that works well
• [00:04:41] A bad argument
• [00:04:51] Bruno Cox’s advice
• [00:05:45] A recent example
• [00:06:18] What makes the difference?
• [00:06:48] Can you create a need?
• [00:07:56] Building bridges with your conversation partner
• [00:08:16] The four pillars of rhetoric
• [00:09:24] Continuing with Cicero
• [00:10:54] Marc Pottiez, market developer
• [00:11:36] When do you propose a meeting?
• [00:11:51] An argument that works well
• [00:12:06] Marc Pottiez’s advice
• [00:12:18] In case of refusal
• [00:12:31] A recent example
• [00:13:01] What tipped the balance?
• [00:13:24] C.C.C: Clear, Short, Concise
• [00:13:32] Understanding your conversation partner
• [00:14:13] “No” is not the end
• [00:14:36] Announcement of the next topic
• [00:14:58] Conclusion and end of the episode

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast, produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio, with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom point Be P.H.C.O.M website, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on PHCom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:07] Hello everyone, welcome to PHCom, the podcast that boosts your sales performance while keeping your balance. I'm Mr. Performance.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:16] And I'm Mrs. Harmonie, and today we're going to talk about a little-forgotten yet essential art: the art of good argumentation. And yes, because good argumentation isn't just talking loud to be right.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:29] Exactly, it's a whole skill set. And to let us know, we put the question to a few market developers and prospectors, and here's what they had to say. Sophie Dive, what makes a good sales pitch?

Sophie Dive: [00:01:42] A good argument is one that touches your interlocutor, that makes your argument relevant, and that meets an expectation.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:51] What's the difference between an argument that goes down well and one that doesn't?

Sophie Dive: [00:01:54] In my opinion, you can't beat around the bush, you have to speak directly, because people don't have time on the phone. So you have to be pragmatic, results-oriented in your head, and not at all aggressive.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:12] Okay, you've got something you use.

Sophie Dive: [00:02:14] The voice is really the voice and the smile in the voice, and the speech. In any case, the feedback I get from customers is "Yes, we spoke to Sophie on the phone, we didn't get too many, too many details, but it made us want to meet you". It's about making people want to meet you.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:29] Do you have a recent example? You've just made an appointment.

Sophie Dive: [00:02:31] Here we are, with a finance manager. Hamza launched a new strategy that was quite successful for my colleague, and so here we are touching on the CFOs. The very open-minded gentleman seemed quite interested in the appointment because he accepted straight away. I sensed a certain questioning, and the argument that prompted me to make the appointment was: "Would you accept a free diagnosis? And "Yes", because it's free, because it doesn't commit you to anything. But what's important for our customer is that we've opened the door, he's entered our prospect's home, and now it's up to our customer to sell his product.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:09] Waouh! That's a really great summary! Indeed, she puts the words where and how they're needed.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:15] Yes, I would have liked to hear him talk about the CSAQ too.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:19] It's true that we've talked about this before. CSAQ stands for "Characteristics", which means that, your Advantage is, and a Question to validate that what I've said has gone through. It's a kind of guideline for presenting a proposal.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:33] And for this proposal to be successful, you need to think first and foremost about the person you're talking to, his or her needs, obstacles and motivations. Argument is clearly not about imposing ideas, it's about building a bridge to the other person.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:45] Very poetic, Mr. Performance, but very true. By the way, you've asked another prospecting manager a few questions on this very subject. We can listen to it together!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:54] Bruno Cox, what do you consider a good sales pitch?

Bruno Cox: [00:03:58] It's already having been able to identify the customer's needs, answer the customer's relevant questions, with fluidity, with the elements that can indeed be decisive in securing an appointment, attracting the customer's attention, attracting the customer's interest, that's it.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:15] What's a good or bad argument, after all?

Bruno Cox: [00:04:18] For me, the right argument is to have already analyzed the company's situation a little. And above all, the right argument for me is to be able to really meet a company's real needs and expectations. Now we need to know whether the company has needs or not. It means asking the right questions, asking open-ended questions to try and identify as much information as possible, and as many needs or expectations as possible.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:41] A bad argument, then?

Bruno Cox: [00:04:43] A bad argument is working only with closed questions. Because you don't receive any information, and it's to block you directly from a customer objection.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:51] Do you have a trick up your sleeve that makes it work?

Bruno Cox: [00:04:53] In any case, I try to have a clear but short introduction. So I'll give a short introduction, and then I'll ask the first open question directly. And at that point, it allows me to have a dialogue, to be able to exchange ideas with the customer in any case. And I try to go through the various questions that help identify needs once again. I don't have a particular trick, but let's just say that as a general rule, I'd say my introduction goes down well because it's fluid, because you can see there's no hesitation, because I use a tone that's reassuring too. I don't do hard selling, so you can see straight away that this isn't a call-center with a detailed script, etc. I adapt the script to the person I'm talking to, to their receptiveness and to any interests they show.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:45] As part of the appointment process. A recent example where you say to yourself "Ok, that worked well".

Bruno Cox: [00:05:51] Well, yes, I had two appointments yesterday. My introduction was very simple, I said "Am I in contact with Mr. So-and-so, head of maintenance? He says "Yes" and I ask him "Do you have two or three minutes to spare for me? He says "Yes, I'm listening", and I say "Well, we specialize in all aspects of preventive maintenance and energy optimization, and I'd like to know what type of machine you have on site and what problems, if any, you're experiencing...". And then the speech begins. And he's open to discussion.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:18] When you propose a meeting, what should make the difference?

Bruno Cox: [00:06:21] Well, once I sense that there's an interest, once I sense that they're in a phase of change or optimization, I say "Listen, but I think that in relation to all the elements you've just mentioned to me, a site visit would be interesting so that we can demonstrate the technology we're using and possibly do a needs analysis, and even more perhaps do an optimization of what you're using today. So I think an on-site visit would be really interesting. Are you open to this proposal? And then they say, "Well yes, I'm interested".

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:48] Ok, super. The question I've been asking myself for the past 20 years is whether we should identify an existing need, or whether we can create one.

Bruno Cox: [00:06:55] We can create a need!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:06:57] But how?

Bruno Cox: [00:06:58] By asking the right questions, by saying, "Do you use maintenance? If so, what type of maintenance? Are you currently happy with the maintenance that's being implemented? Do you have your own maintenance team or do you call in outside companies for this type of maintenance? Ah, but listen..." And then there are the arguments: "So, from an energy point of view, where are you? Is your consumption high or not? Ah well, you know, the intelligent sensors we install directly in electrical cabinets enable you to have 24/7 monitoring, which guarantees continuous, reliable data. What's more, it saves you 15% in energy costs". "Ah, that interests me!"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:37] Okay, beautiful, I'm interested too.

Bruno Cox: [00:07:40] So, there are people who will indeed tell you they have an interest, and there are people who will indeed have to be aroused. And that, of course, is why we have standard questions, which enable us to identify whether there is indeed an interest, whereas at the outset he may not tell you that there is an interest, or he may not have identified the need, even though there may be one!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:56] In fact. So we were talking about building bridges with the person you're talking to, clearly through their needs, and that also means knowing what you want to say.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:06] So have a very clear objective.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:08] And avoid the blah trap. Argumentation is clearly not a contest of words. Better a well-chosen argument than a firework display of banalities.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:16] And the Greeks had already figured it out. The four pillars of rhetoric?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:21] With pleasure. The famous quartet: logos, ethos, pathos... And the latest: Kairos.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:29] Let's go one at a time. Logos means logic, facts, figures, rational arguments. Example: "No studies recommend this method, so it's ineffective", simple, clear and short. We've also already talked about the truths you can incorporate into your script.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:47] Then, with Ethos, we play the credibility card: "I'm the expert, I have the experience, you can trust me".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:54] Pathos is more about emotion. It's never too late to find meaning in what we do". And it only works if it's sincere.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:02] And finally, Kairos: the right tone. Because a great sales pitch at the wrong time is like offering an umbrella when it's 30 degrees out. In fact, I usually say that you have to start arguing when you've understood everything. I've understood: who my contact is, how he works, what his business needs are, and therefore how I'm going to offer him what I have to offer.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:24] Let's continue with the Greeks. Cicero had already established five precepts, so let's share them together?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:30] So number one: "Inventio", to come up with hard-hitting ideas, of course! But also "Dispositio", i.e. to assemble ideas, to create a coherent discourse.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:42] There's also the "Elocutio" to formulate them with style. It's really the use of images, words, turns of phrase, sentences and styles that really fit. For Cicero, "Elocutio" is characterized by four qualities: correctness, clarity, elegance and relevance. The style used - simple, medium or high - must be adapted to the circumstances and the audience.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:05] There's also the "Actio", i.e. to embody with voice and body, that's oratorical action. It's really about putting your speech into action, i.e. embodying it in front of your audience, or on the phone with the person you're speaking to. Through voice modulation, intonation and gestures. In fact, at this point, the speaker can demonstrate his or her conviction in order to maintain attention and achieve his or her objective. If the "Actio" is lacking, well, the argument will inexorably lose effectiveness, hence the importance of taking the trouble to work on this point in particular.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:39] And then there's "Memoria", the ability to remember what you've said. In training, step by step, argument by argument, without needing to give notes. To achieve this, the speaker can use a variety of techniques, such as mnemonics!

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:54] Well, in the end, you have to be able to talk without reading a text, otherwise the exchange becomes cold, and that's exactly what Bruno was saying. Let's listen to a third interview, with Marc, which may shed a little more light: Marc Potier. What makes a good sales pitch?

Marc Pottiez: [00:11:09] For me, a good argument is first and foremost an argument that relates to the person in front of me. Firstly, by the tone of voice, which is a pleasant, professional tone. I always thank "Ben voilà, thank you for taking the call", I always start like that, and "I'm calling you as part of...". So at this point I introduce the company, and then briefly outline the purpose of the call, and let the person speak at this point, it's a bit of a standard sales pitch.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:36] And at what point do you propose to meet, or not?

Marc Pottiez: [00:11:39] As soon as the message has been passed on and I have the prospect's response, well, as soon as the prospect seems to understand what I'm saying and to be interested, then I'm going to propose a meeting.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:51] And what is the argument for proposing this meeting?

Marc Pottiez: [00:11:55] It's a sign of interest in what we're offering as a service. In general, it's services, so as soon as he shows interest in the service, I say, "Well, can our sales manager meet with you about this?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:06] Okay, do you have anything, specifically, that you use?

Marc Pottiez: [00:12:09] Non. The question is simple: "Well, at this point, can Caroline, who represents us here, stop by your place if you like, in the next few days or weeks? Does that suit you?" Something like that.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:18] And when he says "No", do you have any arguments against it?

Marc Pottiez: [00:12:21] Yes, "You say no, no to what? So it's the period that's not working? Is there something else that isn't working for you? Would you prefer another time? Perhaps you'd prefer a video meeting, via Teams for example?"

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:31] You booked an appointment with a hospital for a debt collection customer. What made it work?

Marc Pottiez: [00:12:37] First of all, the surprising thing was that I called him on his landline, because there was no access to his direct phone, so he answered, to my great pleasure and satisfaction. But look, here, given that he's a CFO, the services we were looking to offer seemed to interest him, particularly for debt repurchasing. This particular approach appealed to him, so he made an appointment.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:01] What made him accept the appointment? Why did he like it after all?

Marc Pottiez: [00:13:04] The idea of having a company of our size, our looks, our experience and our specificity in his sector of activity meant that the question of a takeover seemed interesting to him to discuss, and that's why he made the appointment.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:24] Beautiful! Thank you for this exchange Marc. We can sum it up with our good old "CCC": Clear, Short, Concise, no need to say too much, just right.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:13:32] And to be fair, you have to understand the person you're talking to. Are these drivers: sympathy, pride, novelty, comfort, money or security? We need to adapt our approach to each individual case.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:46] And also according to its profile, the way it works. Is it a person of action, reasoning, relationships, reflection? Is it open or closed? Because if it's closed, you'll have to reassure it first, for example. Well, all these good practices need to be put into practice at a given moment, in the here and now.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:08] Well yes, we don't argue in general, we argue for someone, it's tailor-made.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:14:13] Indeed, it's the key to the argument. Now, sometimes that person says "No", but a no is not the end, it's the beginning of the counter-argument.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:23] Yes, a no can simply mean "I didn't understand, I have another priority". Or "I'm just scared". It's up to us to decode it. Is this a real objection, a real misunderstanding? Or passive resistance?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:14:36] And here again, there's no ready-made speech. We listen, we adjust, we rephrase, we create an exchange, not a recitation. Of course, there are also techniques for counter-arguing, but that's for a future podcast.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:49] That's what good telephone argumentation is all about: listening, understanding, adapting, aiming and, above all, the desire to convince without forcing the issue.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:14:58] In short, be strategic, be human and be clear.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:15:01] Thanks for listening, and don't forget, if this episode has inspired you, share it, write it down or, better still, practice arguing like Cicero.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:15:10] See you soon on PHCom, the business intelligence podcast.

• [00:00:00] Intro jingle
• [00:01:11] The phone script, a framework
• [00:01:35] Phone script, conversation guide
• [00:01:51] Importance of qualified appointments
• [00:01:59] Difference between lead and appointment
• [00:02:34] Qualified lead with need
• [00:02:44] BANT method explained
• [00:03:07] Types of appointments
• [00:03:34] Call objective
• [00:03:44] Script structure
• [00:04:10] Script preparation
• [00:05:41] Required script skills
• [00:06:55] Possible strategic approaches
• [00:07:08] Key skills and attitudes
• [00:08:28] The concept of real truths
• [00:09:16] Shared observation
• [00:09:30] Shared real truth
• [00:09:32] Engaging formulations
• [00:10:18] Example hooks
• [00:10:22] Engaging questions
• [00:11:08] Value transition phrases
• [00:11:45] Getting an appointment
• [00:12:17] Reassuring phrases
• [00:12:55] Attitude to adopt
• [00:14:17] The junior without chat
• [00:14:41] AI and ChatGPT
• [00:15:15] Key skills summary
• [00:16:18] Adapting to the interlocutor
• [00:16:36] The question that hits home
• [00:16:57] Controlled improvisation
• [00:17:03] Focus on qualified appointment
• [00:17:07] Conclusion
• [00:17:43] Client series announcement

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:13] Hello and welcome to another episode of the "Performance, Harmony & Commercial" podcast, produced by PHCom in the "transforma bxl" studio in Brussels with technical support from "The Podcast Factory Org".

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:23] The "Performance, Harmonie é Commercial" podcast is aimed at marketing and sales managers as well as company executives with commercial responsibilities.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:32] Every month, we share our best practices in finding new customers for business-to-business companies.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:38] You can find each episode on the PHCom point be website: P.H.C.O.M, and also on all good podcast platforms.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:00:48] You can support this podcast and promote its visibility by sharing it with as many people as possible via a like, comment or share.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:00:55] The answering machine is always open so that you can leave us a message, which we'll be delighted to answer.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:00] You can also book an appointment directly with Nadia or Stéphane on PHCom dot be.

Nadia Ben Jelloun: [00:01:06] See you soon.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:07] Hello, Madame Harmonie.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:08] Hello Stéphane, or Monsieur Performance, the choice is yours.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:11] Go for one or the other. So we've already talked about motivation, punchy intro, storytelling and segmentation, and now it's time to get down to it. Today we're talking about the script, the real one, the one that lands the appointment, the script that hits the nail on the head. In any case, that's the subject we're going to concentrate on, since a good script should also help to sell. But here, first and foremost, let's look at how to set up a meeting.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:35] Let's face it, the telephone script is a formidable weapon, or sometimes a ridiculous one, depending on how you use it. Too often, we think it's just a text to read, when in reality it's a real conversation guide, a support or even a framework.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:01:51] An executive who makes money. Because without qualified appointments, there's no business. And by the way, what is a qualified appointment?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:01:59] Excellent start. This also means differentiating it from a lead. A lead is a lead, a name, a number, a company, sometimes just a click on a page. These are known as Marketing Qualified Leads or MQLs. A qualified appointment is a whole other level: it's the right person, in the right company, with a sufficient level of interest to have a serious discussion. Insofar as this is what is expected, a qualified appointment can very well be defined as simply meeting the right person in the right company, regardless of whether they have a need or not.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:02:34] Exactly. And if he has a need, then we'll talk about Sales Qualified Leads or SQL. We've identified the right contact, we know he has a need, right here, right now.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:02:44] And for the more rigorous, we even talk about BANT, which stands for Budget, Authority, Need and Timing. He's got a budget, he's got the authority to sign, he's the one who decides, and he's got a need, so now's really the right time, so all the boxes are ticked. But don't get your hopes up: not all appointments are BANT on the first call.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:07] That's right! Now, a good meeting can be a presentation meeting, a challenge meeting or a competition meeting. In fact, the most important thing is to know what you're aiming for, before writing the script. We've already talked about this in previous episodes: an introductory appointment can be a qualified appointment insofar as it's an appointment with the right person, in the right company, and there's simply no need for it at the moment. On the other hand, it's very important to be able to position yourself. In this context, it's also a qualified appointment.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:03:34] And that's where it starts. What do I want to say at the end of this call? An exploratory appointment, an introduction to our service, or just permission to call back later?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:03:44] So, the first rule is that a script begins with its objective. Then we'll unfold the classics: a good introduction to capture attention and arouse interest. A good exploratory phase to check the suitability of the company and the contact person. A good proposal that will bridge the gap between their reality and our solution. And we end with a good deed: fixing the appointment and agreeing on a next step.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:04:10] Yes, but be careful, you can't build something like that on a corner of a table, you really need to prepare it in advance.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:04:15] Yes, yes, yes, yes. It starts with knowing your offer, its maturity, its life cycle, its market and its competitors. In fact, in our experience, to build a good script, you need to take 7 things into account. First, the product or service: is it complex, simple, well-known or not? Secondly, the life cycle: is it a product in launch, growth, maturity or decline? Third, the company: is it well known? Is it famous? Fourth, the profile of the target company: is it a small business? An SME? A big company? A government? Fifth, the people we're going to talk to: who are we going to talk to? You don't talk the same way to a finance manager, a marketing manager or an IT manager. Same thing if it's a manager, or rather a project manager, or a boss. So, as we said before, the goal, the actions to be taken, that remains the key element, bearing in mind that, in a telephone script, it's first and foremost about establishing the beginning of a relationship. This means that the person who is going to implement it also has a role to play: is it a junior, a senior, a technical salesperson, someone with a chatty personality? Does it master the product? Is he used to the area? These are the 7 things you really need to consider before you start writing a script.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:05:41] All right, there are 7 points, I hear you. And of course I've heard all the previous episodes of the podcast: how to make a good introduction, how to ask the right questions, storytelling, all that, all that... But at this stage, all this still doesn't tell me how I'm going to build my script in concrete terms?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:05:57] Well, I may surprise you, but I'd tend to say "Let it infuse", in other words: let yourself be carried away by all the information you've gathered from a good briefing, when you've asked all the questions related to the product and the market. On peut aussi aller creuser, faire une analyse SWOT (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities & Threats). What are the strengths we want to highlight? What weaknesses should you be prepared to defend? What opportunities are there for discussion? What are the potential threats and objections to anticipate? We can also carry out a PORTER analysis, to analyze the competitive environment and validate whether the company is indeed attractive and whether there are many competitors. Are there any new entrants? Are there any alternative products or solutions? What negotiating power do you have with suppliers and customers? In fact, all this can give us three approaches. Do I have a strategy of cost domination, a strategy of differentiation, or a strategy of focusing on a single niche?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:06:55] Ok, so all that will give you a good brew, fine, but you're going to make a script that's not going to be the same as mine, if I do, we're different. Are there any skills you need to build "the right script"? Is there a right way to do it?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:08] Two elements: skills, a little experience, but also techniques. The second element is attitude, which can also be translated into technique.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:07:16] Let's start with skills. What do you have in mind?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:07:19] So I see four necessary skills. First and foremost, we need to understand our customers: we need to know the industry, the challenges they face and the vocabulary they use. This obviously means asking the right questions, but first of all, you need to know which question to ask. So the second element is to be very synthetic, very clear, know how to get to the point, with clear, short, concise, impactful messages, so choose the right words, and structure your call well. With a short narrative, a good introduction, a good exploration, a good proposal and a projection of action. The third element is: sales listening, i.e. anticipating objections, formulating the right open-ended questions, planning variants according to the prospect's reaction, the different scenarios. And the fourth skill to always build a script well is to have a sense of persuasion, which can be integrated into the script. This means, for example, mobilizing evidence, concrete results and references. In fact, that's what I call true truths.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:08:28] True truths, that's a pleonasm, isn't it? What does it mean?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:08:31] So the real truths are the ones we can all agree on. An example of a general truism: a proverb, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", "A jug in the water goes so far as to break". So, real truth is also statistics: "Yes, there are over 11 million inhabitants in Belgium, aren't there? And did you know that over 60% of all websites are actually in Flanders?". Another true truth: "Ben, you're obliged to charge VAT" laws, or scientific laws, action-reaction: "Any body immersed in a liquid is... Three little dots", you see, logic is really about being able to say "It's like...blah blah blah". In fact, we have an article on the subject on our website, where we list the 10 true truths that are directly applicable.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:16] Okay, so I realize that you really have to have a good general culture and find the truths that can be shared. In fact, we have to match the values we hold with those held by the other person.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:26] That's right, we're also talking about a shared observation. In any case, we agree on the subject, don't we?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:30] So we've just shared a true truth?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:32] And yes! Another trick is to use engaging, profit-oriented wording!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:09:38] Do you have any examples?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:09:39] So we can distinguish different cases depending on the time of the interview. Example: you want to make a good, profit-oriented teaser, what's the objective? It's about capturing attention from the very first seconds. Example: "I'm calling with a concrete idea for reducing your mobile costs, starting this quarter, without changing operator". Another idea: "I'm coming to you because we've just helped a company like yours regain 20% margin on its dormant stock. Can it be a topic?". Another idea: "You probably already manage your fleet very well, but I think you could save time and peace of mind". Or "In two minutes, I'll tell you if it's worth it for you, and if it's not, I'll hang up, okay?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:18] Ok for the intro, but do you also have examples of questions that are more engaging?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:10:22] Oh yes, there are plenty of them. The aim is always to have a dialogue, not a monologue. So when you ask questions, for example, we can go on a bit with different subjects: "When was the last time you reviewed your mobile stock management system" or "How long does it take you today to do a complete cost report? And if you could eliminate one administrative irritant this month, what would it be?". Or the question I actually love: "What's important to you about this?" you always get a lot of information, and the person you're talking to projects himself, and is with you.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:10:56] Yes, and there are also winning formulations once you've understood what will interest him. This is exactly the moment when we make the link between the prospect's situation and your solution.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:08] This is what I call value transition sentences. And I like to use CSAQ, C.S.A.Q. This means that you actually have characteristics that mean that it brings an advantage to the person you're talking to, and you end with a validation question. Example: "At PHCom we have senior market developers, which means: they can quickly understand your reality and that of your prospects. The advantage is that the discussion is directly much more open with the prospect, and that's what you're interested in, isn't it?", you see? CSAQ: a Feature, Means, Advantage is, and a final Question to validate.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:11:45] And, at the end of the interview, how do you go about getting an appointment without being overly oppressive? Should I always use engaging wording?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:11:54] Example: "Let's set aside fifteen minutes this week so we can see if it's worth it for you...". "I propose a short exchange. If it's relevant, we move forward, if not, we leave it at that". "It doesn't commit you to anything, just to getting to know each other, or you'll simply have a clear vision of what you can improve. And would Tuesday or Thursday suit you for a first exchange? Without obligation, of course!

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:17] There are also phrases that can be used systematically. I know a few people who have their own habits...

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:12:23] And yes, little phrases that reassure and engage. Generally speaking, the aim is to lower defenses and make dialogue more fluid. So avoid jargon, avoid "blah blah blah", just give the figures, the concrete. Example of the style: "You decide whether it speaks to you or not. I'll let you be the judge, I'll show you, you see if it's useful, I'm not selling anything over the phone, I'm just offering a bit of light". As a reminder, at this point we're at a point where we need to come to a joint decision to take things further.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:12:55] Another thing about engaging formulas: there are always phrases that the salesperson uses and doesn't even realize it anymore. Example: "Just a little rendezvous, eh? It doesn't commit you to anything", and that's a flop, because it's a reheated phrase, all served up in the same way. The salesperson is no longer even aware that he or she is using them, it's becoming an ugly automatism. In short, it's all about techniques, but it's also, and above all, about the caller's attitude. Can't we put this in the script?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:13:20] Yes, you can! We can even integrate attitudes into the script, or at least drastically orient the speech around three key elements of attitude in fact. First element, empathy: this means focusing on the customer, avoiding a script about your company or your solution, but put yourself in the prospect's shoes. What's in it for him to listen to me for 30 seconds? If you think about it, you can build that into the script. The second element is honesty and naturalness: avoid empty marketing phrases, avoid false promises, use language that is oral, human and credible. Example: "I imagine that, like many facilities managers, you're also looking to make your life easier...", that's human. The third element is simplicity and adaptability: anything you write should be read aloud... And not read in your head. So leave room, too, for controlled improvisation and all the bounces you can get.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:17] If I'm a junior, or if I'm not as chatty as you, Mr. Performance, what do I do?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:14:22] Well, you're doing better. You do better because you prepare yourself, because you structure yourself, because you ask the right questions, because you project yourself. So a good script isn't just talk, it's business intelligence put into words. And I know you're a good saleswoman, so you have time to prepare.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:37] Speaking of intelligence, can we talk about AI? Do we use ChatGPT then?

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:14:41] Yeah - Laughs - you feel a little fresher there. So, yes, if you give the AI the right information, it will be able to give you something. As long as you know how to correct it, because if you don't it's going to be pure "stinky sales talk", I can spot them 100 leagues away.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:14:57] Yeah, you do have to be careful. So, to sum up, to write a good script you need to: one, understand your target customer. Two, get to the point. Three: persuasion. Four, anticipate reactions. And, fifth and foremost, write to speak, not to read.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:15:15] And as we used to say, it takes attitude. The attitude of a customer-centric sales person, i.e. empathetic, honest, adaptable, everything we've just said. No bluster, no bullshit, just sincerity. You can write it in advance, but you'll have to bring it to life for real. Also, a touch of humor might help, but it really depends on the person. If you write a script with a sense of humor and the person using it doesn't buy it, you've lost the plot. Let's say I sell cell phones to businesses - not very sexy, is it?

Camille de Meeûs: [00:15:45] Ah non! And yet, the IT or purchasing manager we call is his or her day-to-day business. On the face of it, this should interest him, but since he receives eight calls a week on the subject, he's fed up too, so we have to do it another way.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:15:57] Exactly. And so we begin by anticipating the classic objection right from the introduction. "Bonjouurr", well, you've already heard it, it doesn't come across as "Bonjouurr". So, the good morning: "Hello, I know you're very busy on this subject, all the more reason to be direct. We offer a platform that gives you back control over your mobile fleet in just two clicks".

Camille de Meeûs: [00:16:18] And we adapt according to the person we're talking to. For example, an IT manager wants to save time and have an easy integration. For a Facility Manager, he'll be more interested in less worry for users. And for the purchasing manager, what he's looking for is guaranteed savings without a long contract.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:16:36] So we adapt. And the famous question that hits the nail on the head with a touch of real truth, for example: "According to statistics, the companies with the best telecom rates are those that review them every 18 months on average. Since when have you reviewed your mobile pricing to lower costs?"

Camille de Meeûs: [00:16:51] But even the best script doesn't exist without mastered improvisation.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:16:57] In other words, the caller must be able to bounce back, listen and adjust his or her speech, while staying on course.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:17:03] And what is this cape? Well, it's a qualified appointment. That's always the primary objective.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:17:07] So let's summarize: a script is a good structure, not a prison. It must be written to speak to the other person, not to please oneself. It has to be tested, adjusted and experienced.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:17:21] Above all, it must be incarnate. Because you're the voice of your company, and it's your humanity more than your phrases that make people want to listen to you.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:17:30] And in the next episode, we'll be talking about how to make the right arguments, because that's where it all comes down to making the link between their needs and your solution.

Camille de Meeûs: [00:17:39] With tact, attentiveness and a hint of performance.

Stéphane Depaepe: [00:17:42] And lots of harmony.

Michel Godart: [00:17:43] Stéphane, Camille, while we're on the subject of voice, entrepreneurship and enterprise, we've got some good news for listeners. In these podcasts, we've added a new series. With what? With the voice of our customers, PHCom's customers, who will share their experiences, their stories, their expertise, their failures and their successes above all, to give you and inspire you with even more sales and marketing tips. So, do us a favor, go to PHCom's YouTube channel too, make a like, a share, comment. And then you'll see that on the YouTube channel, on the videos, you have a little wheel that lets you activate subtitles, and soon - we've already started for one or two episodes - we'll be adding subtitles first in Dutch. Since our articles, even if the podcast is spoken in French, are submitted with a transcript in Dutch, English and French. Well, you'll find that in the video's subtitles. And we'll be adding Spanish and German, I think, Stéphane. See you all very soon, and then subscribe to the podcast, thanks for listening!